Look at the description of this book.
This is what I came into understanding of independently. Seeing the fear of God in non-idenitifying which also would include self-remembering by default. But to see that as the 'practice' of the Christian. This is why I am in tune with the Puritans (as they really were, not the popular myths and disparagements that come from the world towards truth and on-the-mark knowledge and practice, including the disparaging coming from the very worldly environment of church level Christianity, or, churchianity).
(The link above references the book Puritan Spirituality by J. Stephen Yuille)
Showing posts with label Fourth Way. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Fourth Way. Show all posts
3.10.2008
3.06.2008
Post-post
There's power in these verses:
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/gracelist.html
POWER!!!
Damn it.
There's real, and then there's screwin' around.
WAKE UP!!! (I shout into the mirror.)
Why? Aren't you going to be in the same straits once
glorified? Looking for and thinking up stuff to do?
I don't know. It will probably be different,
methinks. Safe to say it will be different. Right
now we are in a difficult in-between state and
condition. Even when totally asleep we are in fallen
flesh bodies which are rather unfortunate and limited
tabernacles. Even if you have one others want to
devour then after-the-fact it's yeah, hm, right, ok,
gotta go.
And anyway I've already solved all that. It's on my
Plain Path Puritan blog. How in heaven you become the
actual material and events of heaven. It's probably
freaky at first until you begin to get the hang of it
then it's like Greek myth somewhat. Now we see
through a glass darkly.
Everything's been solved.
Over and over.
Just as in heaven you become the actual material and
events of heaven it's the same now with understanding.
If you develop understanding it actually becomes your
being, your body. We can see and feel understanding
residing in the Word of God. And in the influx of the
Holy Spirit and mortifying process of Work efforts.
Now go to the world you ungrateful vain children.
Away! Off with you. I'm the only one who knows
anything. I alone am here, awake, not dead in sin. I
alone. Me it is who knows, no one else. You have no
allies when you know and do the Work. None but me.
I, and I alone. - Me
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/gracelist.html
POWER!!!
Damn it.
There's real, and then there's screwin' around.
WAKE UP!!! (I shout into the mirror.)
Why? Aren't you going to be in the same straits once
glorified? Looking for and thinking up stuff to do?
I don't know. It will probably be different,
methinks. Safe to say it will be different. Right
now we are in a difficult in-between state and
condition. Even when totally asleep we are in fallen
flesh bodies which are rather unfortunate and limited
tabernacles. Even if you have one others want to
devour then after-the-fact it's yeah, hm, right, ok,
gotta go.
And anyway I've already solved all that. It's on my
Plain Path Puritan blog. How in heaven you become the
actual material and events of heaven. It's probably
freaky at first until you begin to get the hang of it
then it's like Greek myth somewhat. Now we see
through a glass darkly.
Everything's been solved.
Over and over.
Just as in heaven you become the actual material and
events of heaven it's the same now with understanding.
If you develop understanding it actually becomes your
being, your body. We can see and feel understanding
residing in the Word of God. And in the influx of the
Holy Spirit and mortifying process of Work efforts.
Now go to the world you ungrateful vain children.
Away! Off with you. I'm the only one who knows
anything. I alone am here, awake, not dead in sin. I
alone. Me it is who knows, no one else. You have no
allies when you know and do the Work. None but me.
I, and I alone. - Me
2.16.2008
Wilhelmus à Brakel
[Archiving a comment I wrote to Paul...]
Psalm 141:3 is a good prayer for your effort.
I've been discovering even more clearly how Wilhelmus à Brakel's Christian's Reasonable Service is a unique work for a Work Christian. He doesn't get into Work ideas and practices, but he DOES get into practical matters of being on the Way. And it is all striking to a degree that I couldn't communicate fully here.
Look at the insight on contentment he has that I posted on my Fourth Way blog. That's one example, but it is a massive four volume work and a treasure of similar insight.
He speaks from understanding regarding being in conflict with the world. He has a chapter on prudence that speaks to much that we converse about regarding Work efforts yet from many different angles.
Worth looking into.
If you acquire it used, single volume by single volume, I would acquire volumes 3 and 4 first, speaking from a Work perspective (volume 4 having the most material on practical matters you don't find in systematic theologies, but volume 3 too, it's just that 3 is mostly taken up with a discourse on the ten commandments, but it then goes into the practical chapters like contentment). The first two volumes are worth having, but they cover what most good systematic theologies give you.
Psalm 141:3 is a good prayer for your effort.
I've been discovering even more clearly how Wilhelmus à Brakel's Christian's Reasonable Service is a unique work for a Work Christian. He doesn't get into Work ideas and practices, but he DOES get into practical matters of being on the Way. And it is all striking to a degree that I couldn't communicate fully here.
Look at the insight on contentment he has that I posted on my Fourth Way blog. That's one example, but it is a massive four volume work and a treasure of similar insight.
He speaks from understanding regarding being in conflict with the world. He has a chapter on prudence that speaks to much that we converse about regarding Work efforts yet from many different angles.
Worth looking into.
If you acquire it used, single volume by single volume, I would acquire volumes 3 and 4 first, speaking from a Work perspective (volume 4 having the most material on practical matters you don't find in systematic theologies, but volume 3 too, it's just that 3 is mostly taken up with a discourse on the ten commandments, but it then goes into the practical chapters like contentment). The first two volumes are worth having, but they cover what most good systematic theologies give you.
2.15.2008
Prayer and Fasting vis-a-vis Self-Remembering and Non-Identifying
Here is a passage from Andrew Murray's With Christ in the School of Prayer:
It gets at the fact that both prayer and fasting in the Bible are practices that are not concretely defined (or, in the case of prayer, are defined as more than one thing).
I got the passage from this short article which is worth reading. The site itself also has other interesting articles like this list of 12 of the most important Christian books.
And prayer needs fasting for its full growth… Prayer is the one hand with which we grasp the invisible; fasting, the other, with which we let loose and cast away the visible. […] Prayer is the reaching out after God and the unseen; fasting, the letting go of all that is of the seen and temporal.
It gets at the fact that both prayer and fasting in the Bible are practices that are not concretely defined (or, in the case of prayer, are defined as more than one thing).
I got the passage from this short article which is worth reading. The site itself also has other interesting articles like this list of 12 of the most important Christian books.
Labels:
Christianity,
Fasting,
Fourth Way,
Prayer,
Quotes
2.02.2008
Non-Identifying and fearing only God
I've experienced that non-identifying is the hardest Work practice - or reality - to describe. Though it's not really since the main Work sources do a pretty good job of it, but you just have to see it in real time. But having said that I want to repeat an insight that there is a real, strong, correlation between non-identifying and fearing God only. Because what happens when you are in a state of identification with your environment and people? You are fearing man more than God. You are allowing yourself to be cowed by the General Law, by man's opinion of you, by people's mechanical demands of you; by also people's confronting of you because you are not 'in the stream' of the 'world' (when you are present in real time, or just merely a regenerated believer in the Lord, King, and Saviour Jesus Christ and you fear God more than you fear man). The world will attack you for this and you will inevitably succumb to the 360 degree unrelenting attack and become identified and obsequious to the great mocking joy of the devil's slaves; so to come out of that (to practice non-identifying) is much like realizing you are engaging in the fear of man and thus you forcefully leave that and fear God only, like a king and a warriour.
I'll add that when you are in a state of fascination with the illusions and distractions of the devil's kingdom and thus in a state of identification with your environment in that sense you are also not fearing God alone. Because you are showing lust and fear and so on with the devil's kingdom rather than God's Kingdom. Coming out of identification with all that illusion and distraction, especially when you are drugged by it (all the influences and also actual drugs such as alcohol or substances or flesh or sport or what have you) is difficult because it's the most difficult to see. It's like the air you breathe. It's the medium you are operating in, like water to a fish. But...you just have to discern influences and levels of influences. Discern your environment and the worth of the various phenomena going on around you and in you.
If you're a born again (regenerated by the Word and the Spirit) Christian on the Way when you are a stranger in this world, and by default a spiritual warriour. You need to be awake and to have and use the full armour of God.
I'll add that when you are in a state of fascination with the illusions and distractions of the devil's kingdom and thus in a state of identification with your environment in that sense you are also not fearing God alone. Because you are showing lust and fear and so on with the devil's kingdom rather than God's Kingdom. Coming out of identification with all that illusion and distraction, especially when you are drugged by it (all the influences and also actual drugs such as alcohol or substances or flesh or sport or what have you) is difficult because it's the most difficult to see. It's like the air you breathe. It's the medium you are operating in, like water to a fish. But...you just have to discern influences and levels of influences. Discern your environment and the worth of the various phenomena going on around you and in you.
If you're a born again (regenerated by the Word and the Spirit) Christian on the Way when you are a stranger in this world, and by default a spiritual warriour. You need to be awake and to have and use the full armour of God.
10.06.2007
Practical union with Christ
What does it mean to be in practical union with Christ? This is the one thing that the faith drives towards and has meaning in terms of being in the Kingdom of God and having liberty from and protection from the Kingdom of Satan. In other words, when it comes down to the reality of being a Christian it is actual union, in real time, with Christ (with the Triune God) that has practical meaning regarding salvation.
Faith effects this, but I am talking here about how this union is effected in a real way. Christians historically leave this subject in mystical realms and language, but when you know the Work you can see and effect the union with Christ practically.
You have to use the categories of prophet, priest and king. This is the image of God that you share with Christ.
The way you effect union with Christ as a prophet is to engage His Word and develop by degree in real understanding of it.
Along with that you practice in real time the priestly function of loving your enemies and forgiving your debtors so that God will forgive you your debts. (For a Work person this is understood in practical language and practices such as not internally-considering.)
And with all of this you develop as a King, as you, by degree, win and consolidate more and more inner command in your inner being, or inner domain. The language of the Work makes all this practical (otherwise I'm just talking like any mainstream Christian who has yet to enter the school level).
Real development of understanding based on the Word of God is a real, practical way you are in union with Christ, to greater and greater degree. And then kingly presence and inner command and priestly sacrifice (sacrificing your suffering, fake suffering or not) is how you develop internally to the Real Internal Presence that approaches Christ. Accumulating higher energy via self-remembering is also working with the Holy Spirit which puts you in union, or connection, with Christ. Not grieving the Spirit (provoking your limits and extending your limits for being able to not grieve the Spirit) is how you develop greater real union with Christ.
Prayer as communication effects and develops union with Christ as well, in the midst of all the above.
You'll experience what Christ experienced when He was in the world. This is part of real union with Christ.
In all the above I am referring to the union a believer has with Christ that is built on the foundational union effected by effectual calling and regeneration and conversion (having faith in Jesus and repentance for sin). Justification is by faith alone. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Once justifified and a child of God, you are still in this fallen body and this fallen world, and you don't stop living and striving to recover fully the image of god. It's not required for salvation, it is the fruit of saving faith and justification.
1. Connecting with Christ, or being in union with Christ, by greater and greater degree - or degree of 'deepening' of that union - regarding being a prophet corresponds more to the 'spiritual or mystical' union Christians have recognized over time. This has to do with language and communication. The Word of God, meditation, prayer, presence.
2. Connecting with Christ, or being in union with Christ, by greater and greater degree - or degree of 'deepening' of that union - regarding being a priest corresponds more to the 'experiential' union Christians have recognized over time. Experiencing in this life, in real time, in contact and conflict with the flesh, the world, and the devil, what Christ Himself experienced. This has to do more with sacrifice and suffering and the giving up of vanity, worldly pride, and self-will. Loving one's enemies as a self-sacrifice that garners God's forgiveness of our own debts.
3. Connecting with Christ, or being in union with Christ, by greater and greater degree - or degree of 'deepening' of that union - regarding being a king corresponds more to the 'incarnational' union Christians have recognized over time. This has more to do with the actual battles, internal and external, that occur when the Holy Spirit is present within one and our flesh (Old Man) fights it, and the world gives us friction, and the devil himself takes notice of us because of it. The Holy Spirit was given in 'full measure' to Jesus, but He is the only human being that could handle the full measure (or 'without measure') of the Spirit. A Christian has to develop by degree in being able to handle more and higher amounts of the Holy Spirit within oneself by provoking one's limits and then struggling to extend those limits. This is the work of the king part of the image of God. You develop as a king as you gain more and more inner command and unity of the disparate parts of your inner being. (The school language of the Work is needed to understand this.) This process is the incarnational union where we are made one with Christ and partake of His nature. We are deified, in the language of the Eastern Orthodox, by the presence of the Holy Spirit within us, recovering by degree fully the image of God - and more - lost in the fall of Adam.
You can see that in the above the prophet development corresponds with Protestant dinstinctives; and the priest development corresponds with Catholic dinstinctives (generall speaking); and the king development corresponds with Orthodox distinctives. When you have all three - a balanced development - you enter a way that involves all of them and which is a different level. It's not for everybody, but it's available to anybody.
Faith effects this, but I am talking here about how this union is effected in a real way. Christians historically leave this subject in mystical realms and language, but when you know the Work you can see and effect the union with Christ practically.
You have to use the categories of prophet, priest and king. This is the image of God that you share with Christ.
The way you effect union with Christ as a prophet is to engage His Word and develop by degree in real understanding of it.
Along with that you practice in real time the priestly function of loving your enemies and forgiving your debtors so that God will forgive you your debts. (For a Work person this is understood in practical language and practices such as not internally-considering.)
And with all of this you develop as a King, as you, by degree, win and consolidate more and more inner command in your inner being, or inner domain. The language of the Work makes all this practical (otherwise I'm just talking like any mainstream Christian who has yet to enter the school level).
Real development of understanding based on the Word of God is a real, practical way you are in union with Christ, to greater and greater degree. And then kingly presence and inner command and priestly sacrifice (sacrificing your suffering, fake suffering or not) is how you develop internally to the Real Internal Presence that approaches Christ. Accumulating higher energy via self-remembering is also working with the Holy Spirit which puts you in union, or connection, with Christ. Not grieving the Spirit (provoking your limits and extending your limits for being able to not grieve the Spirit) is how you develop greater real union with Christ.
Prayer as communication effects and develops union with Christ as well, in the midst of all the above.
You'll experience what Christ experienced when He was in the world. This is part of real union with Christ.
In all the above I am referring to the union a believer has with Christ that is built on the foundational union effected by effectual calling and regeneration and conversion (having faith in Jesus and repentance for sin). Justification is by faith alone. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Once justifified and a child of God, you are still in this fallen body and this fallen world, and you don't stop living and striving to recover fully the image of god. It's not required for salvation, it is the fruit of saving faith and justification.
1. Connecting with Christ, or being in union with Christ, by greater and greater degree - or degree of 'deepening' of that union - regarding being a prophet corresponds more to the 'spiritual or mystical' union Christians have recognized over time. This has to do with language and communication. The Word of God, meditation, prayer, presence.
2. Connecting with Christ, or being in union with Christ, by greater and greater degree - or degree of 'deepening' of that union - regarding being a priest corresponds more to the 'experiential' union Christians have recognized over time. Experiencing in this life, in real time, in contact and conflict with the flesh, the world, and the devil, what Christ Himself experienced. This has to do more with sacrifice and suffering and the giving up of vanity, worldly pride, and self-will. Loving one's enemies as a self-sacrifice that garners God's forgiveness of our own debts.
3. Connecting with Christ, or being in union with Christ, by greater and greater degree - or degree of 'deepening' of that union - regarding being a king corresponds more to the 'incarnational' union Christians have recognized over time. This has more to do with the actual battles, internal and external, that occur when the Holy Spirit is present within one and our flesh (Old Man) fights it, and the world gives us friction, and the devil himself takes notice of us because of it. The Holy Spirit was given in 'full measure' to Jesus, but He is the only human being that could handle the full measure (or 'without measure') of the Spirit. A Christian has to develop by degree in being able to handle more and higher amounts of the Holy Spirit within oneself by provoking one's limits and then struggling to extend those limits. This is the work of the king part of the image of God. You develop as a king as you gain more and more inner command and unity of the disparate parts of your inner being. (The school language of the Work is needed to understand this.) This process is the incarnational union where we are made one with Christ and partake of His nature. We are deified, in the language of the Eastern Orthodox, by the presence of the Holy Spirit within us, recovering by degree fully the image of God - and more - lost in the fall of Adam.
You can see that in the above the prophet development corresponds with Protestant dinstinctives; and the priest development corresponds with Catholic dinstinctives (generall speaking); and the king development corresponds with Orthodox distinctives. When you have all three - a balanced development - you enter a way that involves all of them and which is a different level. It's not for everybody, but it's available to anybody.
10.05.2007
Communion with God
Communion with the Triune God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - is the center-of-gravity of the faith. It's what the Work develops as well. It's what you need in life and in death, unless you are in the Kingdom of Satan and want to be there.
Trying to sum up some things...
[17 paragraphs, but not a waste of time. Read piece-meal perhaps over time perhaps, but it has some perspective...]
This is an area where Fourth Way - or Work - challenges one (it challenges me); i.e. seeing that when you enter the Fourth Way you are no longer a part of the Man #1, 2, or 3 ways, and in Christianity this means Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant ways.
I think one can become jealous to defend the Protestant way once one comes to it because it contains the on-the-mark intellectual doctrine (Calvinism, Reformed, Puritan) which is the hardest to come into understanding (and acceptance) of. But to see it as 'all' is of course wrong because you need a balance of development of all the ways (centers).
The Orthodox definitely has the practical level teaching (not the Work, the Work is of the Man #4 level, but the Eastern Orthodox level nevertheless specializes in the practical level teaching - or spiritual disciplines - just as Protestantism specializes in the intellectual doctrine teaching.
The Roman Catholic way is unique in that it is an emotional level, and it is here that the devil seems to want to reside. Probably the passage to higher centers is through here, so the devil makes his camp here. It's also strangely tempting to weak souls. It's also a horror show.
Perhaps the language of the Homeric epics (or Greek teaching in general, or all B Influence up to the summit) enable one to 'get' what that realm has and what one needs from that realm while bypassing the devil's clutches.
I think a striking point above is that though the Orthodox level is the level where the most practical level instruction resides it is STILL not the Work. Mouravieff kind of pulls the Work down to the level of Orthodox Christianity in that sense, wrongly. The Work is the Man #4 level and can only be seen and valued by Man #4.
Another big point above is to see how any of the three levels (1,2,3) can tempt and keep one inside it. I see it for the #3 Protestant level. Once you learn it you still stay around and study and argue and go on and on and on with it. But you have to learn it well, nevertheless. Then don't get stuck in it.
If the practical need is to find a point-of-contact (even for the Man #4 level) it is the Church, for the Roman Catholic; and it is the Bible, for the Protestant (ideally); and it is something else for the Eastern Orthodox (prayer? internal connection via various disciplines?)...
For the 4th Way it is presence.
I find it interesting that spiritual warfare is a subject of biblical doctrine that doesn't make it into Protestant systematic theologies. The Puritans made it their specialty, but that is where they differ from mainstream Protestants. They knew regeneration and the three-front war with the flesh, the world, and the devil. This is a point-of-contact. You are no more in contact with Jesus and the revealed Word and faith and all of it than when in the armor of God in battle with yourself the world and the devil. On the Way.
A dividing line, or antithesis. Separation from the world, and I from 'it' internally. Separation in terms also of being in the Kingdom of Light and not the Kingdom of Darkness. This is a practical way to see the point-of-contact with the Spirit and the Son and the Father. That point-of-contact which will be everything when you are on your deathbed staring into eternity.
The Man #4 (and 5 and up) formula is: make a goal to read the Bible complete a set number of times. Get it into you. The language into you. So it takes root. Then develop using the knowledge of the Work. Discipline. Then become more refined emotionally. Develop more and more inner command. All the provoking of limits and extending of limits. Effected by real time presence (self-remembering for duration, depth, and frequency) and non-identifying. It brings on the battle, then you use the friction of the war to further develop.
You're on the Way, wherever you are in time or space. The school is above you and a cosmos you inhabit (ideally, when it can reach you, i.e. when you are in the third state of consciousness).
It's real when you have contact with the actual Word of God. That is *really* a Man #4 thing. As Simon was saying, that really isn't taught in any church, even Protestant. Calvinism and Puritanism, yes, but they are closest to the #4 level (or *were*, modern day Calvinists usually can't even recognize or value the pure and whole traditional text Word of God). Like I've said: it should be a basic, default teaching in every church that a Christian should have a goal to read the Bible complete once, three times, seven times. But it's not, because that is a weird thing (a #4 level thing).
It's also real when your false personality (Old Man) fights back. Limits get provoked, and you are on the battlefield. This is real.
It is also a real thing when you engage B Influences (art, music, imaginative literature, history, philosophy, science, religion) and get understanding and emotional refinement from them. Climb the mountain of them to the summit. *See* the mountain to begin with. See how B Influence resides in a hierarchy.
Prayer is a point-of-contact for the #4 level too, as much as for any of the other levels. Ask and ye shall receive. It's a bold act of a newly adopted child of God. Or a king. A point-of-contact is also meditating on and doing the two great commandments: love God and love your neighbor as yourself (which can correspond with the two conscious shocks of self-remembering and non-identifying when it is most difficult). Also, fearing only God and not man. (With regeneration you are 'in', despite yourself, really, it is God's doing, but that is the five solas understanding that is the necessary foundation that knowing sound biblical doctrine gives you...) - C.
--- ******* wrote:
> I'm pretty clear on where and how Catholicism
> differs to Protestantism but I
> am a lot less certain on how the Eastern Orthodox
> tradition of the early
> Church differs. Orthodox are keen on hesychasm,
> although that itself appears
> to have been an area of dispute in Orthodox history.
> They believe in
> 'theosis' - which actually isn't off-kilter - we
> should all aspire to be
> more Christ like - presumably the point of
> difference is that a Protestant
> does not see 'theosis' as an element of individual
> Salvation where Orthodox
> does. They refute the Spirit coming from the Son,
> Spirit comes only from the
> Father, (the filique controversy). The Great Schism
> appears to be less about
> theological understanding and more of a power
> struggle between Byzantium &
> Rome, or between Greeks & Latins brought about
> through
> language/communication barriers. The most
> controversial issue - and this
> would be much less an issue for the Catholics at the
> time of the Schism -
> the Orthodox does not allow for sola scripture
> because for them the bible
> only exists in the context of the living tradition
> initiated by Christ,
> handed from generation to generation, (apostolic
> succession). Like
> Catholics, the Orthodox did not want the individual
> to approach the Word.
> The Word belongs to the Church. It is interesting
> how the Coptic, Orthodox &
> Catholic Church appear so alike. The 5 solas of the
> reformers make
> Protestants an entirely different breed.
>
> I've just been reading this article on
> western/eastern art and finding
> myself in broad agreement with the author. I
> wouldn't say I necessarily
> agree with the authors description of western art as
> secular - that
> obviously is not true even if you allow that many
> artists painted religious
> works simply because that's where the commission's
> were coming from.
> Nontheless, the issue about transformation seems
> quite accurate. I think as
> a discussion of spiritual art, there are some useful
> points amidst the
> numerous theological pops, although I don't think
> Icons are alone in their
> spiritual display, a lot of celtic art meets the
> same standard and actually
> so too most stained glass work and much sculpture
> and music.
>
> http://www.traditionaliconography.com/webgalleryart.html
>
> Mouravieff's writings come from the Orthodox
> tradition, G had it somewhere
> in his background and if we are to believe it, G
> asked his pupils to go
> search the Orthodox tradition. I've been looking
> over the Praxis website
> again. Outside the Philokalia (which I never read)
> that site is a storehouse
> of Orthodox teachings in english, not that it's all
> free, but it's an access
> point with a 4thWay understanding in the selections.
> There's this freebie (I
> haven't read it yet):
>
> http://www.praxisinstitute.net/Praxis%20Now/Theosis/theosis_contents.htm
>
> Overall though, whilst there are some useful things
> to be found within the
> Orthodox, it really is a variant of the same strain
> as Catholicism.
>
This is an area where Fourth Way - or Work - challenges one (it challenges me); i.e. seeing that when you enter the Fourth Way you are no longer a part of the Man #1, 2, or 3 ways, and in Christianity this means Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant ways.
I think one can become jealous to defend the Protestant way once one comes to it because it contains the on-the-mark intellectual doctrine (Calvinism, Reformed, Puritan) which is the hardest to come into understanding (and acceptance) of. But to see it as 'all' is of course wrong because you need a balance of development of all the ways (centers).
The Orthodox definitely has the practical level teaching (not the Work, the Work is of the Man #4 level, but the Eastern Orthodox level nevertheless specializes in the practical level teaching - or spiritual disciplines - just as Protestantism specializes in the intellectual doctrine teaching.
The Roman Catholic way is unique in that it is an emotional level, and it is here that the devil seems to want to reside. Probably the passage to higher centers is through here, so the devil makes his camp here. It's also strangely tempting to weak souls. It's also a horror show.
Perhaps the language of the Homeric epics (or Greek teaching in general, or all B Influence up to the summit) enable one to 'get' what that realm has and what one needs from that realm while bypassing the devil's clutches.
I think a striking point above is that though the Orthodox level is the level where the most practical level instruction resides it is STILL not the Work. Mouravieff kind of pulls the Work down to the level of Orthodox Christianity in that sense, wrongly. The Work is the Man #4 level and can only be seen and valued by Man #4.
Another big point above is to see how any of the three levels (1,2,3) can tempt and keep one inside it. I see it for the #3 Protestant level. Once you learn it you still stay around and study and argue and go on and on and on with it. But you have to learn it well, nevertheless. Then don't get stuck in it.
If the practical need is to find a point-of-contact (even for the Man #4 level) it is the Church, for the Roman Catholic; and it is the Bible, for the Protestant (ideally); and it is something else for the Eastern Orthodox (prayer? internal connection via various disciplines?)...
For the 4th Way it is presence.
I find it interesting that spiritual warfare is a subject of biblical doctrine that doesn't make it into Protestant systematic theologies. The Puritans made it their specialty, but that is where they differ from mainstream Protestants. They knew regeneration and the three-front war with the flesh, the world, and the devil. This is a point-of-contact. You are no more in contact with Jesus and the revealed Word and faith and all of it than when in the armor of God in battle with yourself the world and the devil. On the Way.
A dividing line, or antithesis. Separation from the world, and I from 'it' internally. Separation in terms also of being in the Kingdom of Light and not the Kingdom of Darkness. This is a practical way to see the point-of-contact with the Spirit and the Son and the Father. That point-of-contact which will be everything when you are on your deathbed staring into eternity.
The Man #4 (and 5 and up) formula is: make a goal to read the Bible complete a set number of times. Get it into you. The language into you. So it takes root. Then develop using the knowledge of the Work. Discipline. Then become more refined emotionally. Develop more and more inner command. All the provoking of limits and extending of limits. Effected by real time presence (self-remembering for duration, depth, and frequency) and non-identifying. It brings on the battle, then you use the friction of the war to further develop.
You're on the Way, wherever you are in time or space. The school is above you and a cosmos you inhabit (ideally, when it can reach you, i.e. when you are in the third state of consciousness).
It's real when you have contact with the actual Word of God. That is *really* a Man #4 thing. As Simon was saying, that really isn't taught in any church, even Protestant. Calvinism and Puritanism, yes, but they are closest to the #4 level (or *were*, modern day Calvinists usually can't even recognize or value the pure and whole traditional text Word of God). Like I've said: it should be a basic, default teaching in every church that a Christian should have a goal to read the Bible complete once, three times, seven times. But it's not, because that is a weird thing (a #4 level thing).
It's also real when your false personality (Old Man) fights back. Limits get provoked, and you are on the battlefield. This is real.
It is also a real thing when you engage B Influences (art, music, imaginative literature, history, philosophy, science, religion) and get understanding and emotional refinement from them. Climb the mountain of them to the summit. *See* the mountain to begin with. See how B Influence resides in a hierarchy.
Prayer is a point-of-contact for the #4 level too, as much as for any of the other levels. Ask and ye shall receive. It's a bold act of a newly adopted child of God. Or a king. A point-of-contact is also meditating on and doing the two great commandments: love God and love your neighbor as yourself (which can correspond with the two conscious shocks of self-remembering and non-identifying when it is most difficult). Also, fearing only God and not man. (With regeneration you are 'in', despite yourself, really, it is God's doing, but that is the five solas understanding that is the necessary foundation that knowing sound biblical doctrine gives you...) - C.
--- ******* wrote:
> I'm pretty clear on where and how Catholicism
> differs to Protestantism but I
> am a lot less certain on how the Eastern Orthodox
> tradition of the early
> Church differs. Orthodox are keen on hesychasm,
> although that itself appears
> to have been an area of dispute in Orthodox history.
> They believe in
> 'theosis' - which actually isn't off-kilter - we
> should all aspire to be
> more Christ like - presumably the point of
> difference is that a Protestant
> does not see 'theosis' as an element of individual
> Salvation where Orthodox
> does. They refute the Spirit coming from the Son,
> Spirit comes only from the
> Father, (the filique controversy). The Great Schism
> appears to be less about
> theological understanding and more of a power
> struggle between Byzantium &
> Rome, or between Greeks & Latins brought about
> through
> language/communication barriers. The most
> controversial issue - and this
> would be much less an issue for the Catholics at the
> time of the Schism -
> the Orthodox does not allow for sola scripture
> because for them the bible
> only exists in the context of the living tradition
> initiated by Christ,
> handed from generation to generation, (apostolic
> succession). Like
> Catholics, the Orthodox did not want the individual
> to approach the Word.
> The Word belongs to the Church. It is interesting
> how the Coptic, Orthodox &
> Catholic Church appear so alike. The 5 solas of the
> reformers make
> Protestants an entirely different breed.
>
> I've just been reading this article on
> western/eastern art and finding
> myself in broad agreement with the author. I
> wouldn't say I necessarily
> agree with the authors description of western art as
> secular - that
> obviously is not true even if you allow that many
> artists painted religious
> works simply because that's where the commission's
> were coming from.
> Nontheless, the issue about transformation seems
> quite accurate. I think as
> a discussion of spiritual art, there are some useful
> points amidst the
> numerous theological pops, although I don't think
> Icons are alone in their
> spiritual display, a lot of celtic art meets the
> same standard and actually
> so too most stained glass work and much sculpture
> and music.
>
> http://www.traditionaliconography.com/webgalleryart.html
>
> Mouravieff's writings come from the Orthodox
> tradition, G had it somewhere
> in his background and if we are to believe it, G
> asked his pupils to go
> search the Orthodox tradition. I've been looking
> over the Praxis website
> again. Outside the Philokalia (which I never read)
> that site is a storehouse
> of Orthodox teachings in english, not that it's all
> free, but it's an access
> point with a 4thWay understanding in the selections.
> There's this freebie (I
> haven't read it yet):
>
> http://www.praxisinstitute.net/Praxis%20Now/Theosis/theosis_contents.htm
>
> Overall though, whilst there are some useful things
> to be found within the
> Orthodox, it really is a variant of the same strain
> as Catholicism.
>
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