Something on de Sade

When I include de Sade in a book list I often get negative responses.

P. of England recently responded to my latest post below with:

I recall this discussion a long way back... I objected to de Sade and I again find myself saying No de Sade! The world is fallen, it surrounds us, we don't need Sade. We have television. We have the internet. De Sade is a dumb idea. A real time waster. There is enough hideousness without him. If you haven't read de Sade before you encounter the Work I can see no use thereafter. Faith Hope Charity Love.

So then S. of Australia responded to P. of England with:

I have to disagree - I read desade, and as an influence it transmits something powerful. It captures the depth of whats possible in terms of evil and depravity, yet at the same time it communicates the HOLLOWNESS of it all.

Once you've read De Sade, you see internet porn in a different light. Its not shocking, its just DUMB and empty. The thing with De Sades work is that he actually takes it as far as it can possibly go until its becomes ridiculous, and even laughable. You can see that there is a bottom to depravity, the pointlessness of it all.

Then I wrote:

I agree with Simon (and Dostoevsky and other greats had the same experience with de Sade). I'll just add that my list is based on one being in the middle of the 1800s, and imagine not having porn or other media to see the vanity - and just the existence - of the 'non-public' activities and the depths of fallen man's behaviour, then a de Sade would be very valuable. Disturbing no doubt, but valuable. Of course, one in one hundred (or whatever) people encountering such an influence becomes a serial murderer I suppose, but... I imagine it would be a hard book to acquire back then. You'd be left to looking at the domesticated animals doing their thing. But ideally, if you could have all those influences, then it is a necessary one.

A shallow Christian would say: "Maybe get married? Duh?" No, shallow church Christian, this is about understanding. It's not about married sex. And it's about not getting trapped into the pit of the world prior to getting understanding of it all, then not getting trapped at all. A Christian has to have understanding. A shallow Christian is nigh worthless other than to breed other Christians, which is not a useless thing, but it's not the faith, and it doesn't get one understanding.

I'm talking about a de Sade regarding its potential value to 'get you over' being *captured* or *entranced* by sex and violence and such things. With real understanding you transcend such things. Which is rare. If you don't confront it it is still in you though in darkness. Confront it, get understanding of it, get above it. If you don't have control of it, it will have control of you. (If you are a potential serial murderer then go read books that one can find in the average Christian bookstore.)

And to reiterate: in our era one hardly has to pick up de Sade. Just turn on your computer. But when an influence gets you understanding of something don't pretend that you had it all along. You needed the influence. Just as a Dostoevsky, living in the 1800s, or a Nietzsche, needed a de Sade. (Although, regarding S. of Australia's point above, de Sade *still does* have a unique standing among all influences that show our fallen nature at its worst.)

Christians and Christian so-called 'leaders' are shallow. That is a fact. The faith calls for us to develop understanding. Real understanding. The call is all through the Bible.

One note: de Sade's 'philosophy' he strews all through his porn and violence is not what is being discussed. That is maybe just a complimentary intellectual baseness to accompany the base activities. Now, who reads de Sade? (Other than S. of Australia...ha ha, just kidding, S.) If I was growing up in the middle of nowhere in the 1800s I'd value it. Then burn it. No. Yeah, what would you do with it once you've gotten out of it all one can? Eh, leave it on the bookshelf, as if you don't know what it is or where it came from... Some other developing soul will stumble upon it...

Having said all the above: DON'T READ DE SADE! IT'S STUPID AND UNNECESSARY! And if you do skim through some, don't admit it, and don't recommend it. Leave that to me. I have no worldly standing and village of morality honor to protect...